I haven't really talked too much with checking my analytics, but I've just seen that the content that's performed best on my tiktok itself, performed, just as well on Instagram. But my issue is, I feel like it's different for everyone's nice, honestly. So my English is different because I'm able to talk about side hustles that not many quote unquote entrepreneur type accounts talk about an internet platform. It's like a callus talk about like drop shipping you know make 10,000 a month to drop shipping like everyone's tired of seeing that content so my content goes viral because it's kind of new and unheard of tactics right just to make money and I cut out a lot of the bullshit.
So, I would say, it's more of a, also the type of content style that you're creating. I can recommend you guys certain types of content style that I've seen work best in terms of you were trying to actually show your face on the platform.
There's like talking directly to the camera and there's talking to yourself as if you're two different characters.
There is dancing and putting words on top of the screen.
There are many different ways you could create content on with video and these new like editing capabilities.
One thing I absolutely love about Tiktok, and Instagram reels now is that you're able to edit and cut videos so easily on this has never been done before.
Unless you have one of those like platforms that you nobody had experience with that was kind of one of my bigger century in terms of creating content because I didn't know how to edit videos, but once you're becoming comfortable with using the editing capabilities and becoming familiar with the other types of content that are going viral on Tiktok or Instagram able to emulate their style. And like figure out what jump cuts work like an office how to switch scenes really quickly. It's really specific I know but you the best piece of advice I can give anybody who's trying to start putting out content is that emulate the content styles of the most successful people in that niche that are producing content.
Interesting. So I have. I host a bunch of like hour long, workshops, and we record the facilitator, and I thought of like chopping them up into little pieces and putting them on we're not checked out yet but we have about 3000 followers on Instagram so I thought maybe we could put it on reels as a way to increase engagement. But I'm wondering like how short we should make them or we should include a whole thing.
You could only you could only put up 30 seconds on reels. One of the most current tactics everyone's using is that they're taking the most eye catching or just the most interesting part of the 30 seconds you want to put on reels, and feeding that in the beginning of the first five seconds so it catches the eye. So keep in mind you're competing with millions of videos being uploaded every single day. If you don't catch the attention of the person, the first second of the video, you're gonna get swiped up on, which means they're gonna not watch your video.
So good, so I'm confused because like my yoga studio has like hour long videos on reels and Instagram of yoga classes.
Are you uploading on HGTV.
Oh, maybe that's igtv I'm not doing it, I'm just watching their yoga. Oh, so I GTV and reels are different. Okay.
So back to what I was saying, you guys should all look at gave us content recently. He's taking the most like the most attention grabbing part of any conversation that he's recorded, himself, and he's feeding it into the first three seconds of the video. Then he puts that like Gary Vee signature, and then he starts the video from the beginning. So, like he's like, quote unquote, savigny video like how to basically it's like yeah there's so $200 billion. kb sign, and then he starts the video from there. So like you have a kind of a understanding of like you have a foreshadow of what he's going to lead to. So that's like a really attention grabbing piece of content tagged it I've seen been used really recently,
Daniel I think that's such a good point. So many creators and storytellers, usually follow a traditional three act storytelling method where the climax kind of hits like you know and like the third third act.
Yeah yeah
so the climax usually is like towards the middle or towards the end. But with it with a tick tock culture and what's funny is like science hormonal scientists study this with Tick Tock the attention span is so short, you got to put the climax right in the beginning, hook them immediately. And then you begin the story.
Exactly super like yes I put the first five seconds of attention grabbing I'm like no, it's gonna be the first 1.5 seconds anything over like 2.1 2.2. You've lost them.
Yeah, if if it's even 1.5 it probably has to be like point three or four seconds of a window where you have to, like, hitch them most, most of us think like you know, we've got to have a big preamble or set up the story, or give somebody like context. You've got no time for that you've got to like literally hard sell somebody, boom, and then start start for the beginning after that, after the hook.
The most the most successful thing I can recommend to anybody who started by a ringway like quality of your video is super important and I've seen videos like exponentially grow as a face light that highlights my face so I definitely agree with you. It's interesting
that we're looking at it now and saying that you know you have such a quick amount of time in the product world you know there's a saying that if a user doesn't make a decision in 100 milliseconds, they're going to change their mind. So I mean, if you follow that same that same principle I guess is followed in when you're creating content if you look at, you know, the audience as your user, you have such a short window of attracting their attention and so down even to your point, the quality of, you know what the video looks like he's going to dictate whether or not you know it gives you the best foot forward. Yep,
exactly,
talk on a quick tangent real quick, Jen I see you are the co founder of circus, were you at the blockchain event in the LA beef, like two years ago.
Possibly, we've produced so many of our own events at circus, and vest. And I attend so many I speak out a lot, whether it's on panels, so I can't really recall but I've been to a riff a million times.
Yeah, I started the blockchain club in my college back. So just curious to know if I did your time with you in some way.
Oh, that's awesome. I'd love to love to connect with you offline at some point.
Yeah. You know, when you put it out there so let's definitely chat over there.
Yeah, for sure. So do we have any new topics that we're discussing now. Yeah,
I'm open I actually have to run soon,
but I'll make everyone mine, so you can keep the room up and
I'm gonna pop off at
330 minutes. Sorry. Time Zones will go.
What do we what do you guys, what what interests you guys about clubhouse. You guys are you guys looking at it more just like are you guys looking at as a place to learn from. are you trying to like Grow Your Own following Twitter bots.
I didn't know what clubhouse was so I got invited last night and I joined, and I didn't put my name on my real name, as my username, because I didn't know if this is like a dating app or like a hookup app or something, it just sounded like the club, like a nightclub or something. But I'm finding a lot of intelligent compelling speakers and rooms in this this is really interesting. It kind of reminds me of stereo app, I don't know if anyone has tried stereo. It's similar to this, but it's a one on one conversation imagine a live podcast where people can quote unquote dial in and ask a question as you're talking to somebody live. What I love about stereo is it records all your conversation. So then you can take that audio and then you can upload it as a podcast, or you can repurpose it however you want, but again it's one on one it's less effective for like giant panels, or I guess clubhouse feels more like an event, love to know if anyone has tried stereo app if you've, or if you've heard of it.
I've heard of it.
Yeah,
I definitely here it's interesting to see if classes are gonna introduce a feature that allows you to record the conversations but it's going to have to prompt everyone in the room. Let them know that hey it's been recorded.
I'd love to see a record function on clubhouse. There's so much information that I wasn't able to tap into because I was kind of working on something as I was listening to some of the speakers, and people gave great tips on productivity tools and software and automation tools, I think, and it's sad, there's no history for me to go back on so that that would be an awesome feature, or maybe like, I don't know maybe like a chat feature or is there a direct message feature here,
or Twitter Instagram DMS right
now is the main way to do that. I think I'm building a platform to. That's like a visual version of clubhouse I
guess, to some degree, so
a lot of being here is research and
also I enjoyed the conversations.
We were talking earlier about the best virtual events this year, and which which events were the best that you attended to and why. And I think we were trying to, I don't know, Daniel if you have you been to any really great virtual events, and why were, what was the best aspect about them.
Definitely clubhouse like by a mile. I dread going to zoom conferences I've yet to see another platform that actually grabs my attention or any other companies using. It is there just something about you, yet clubhouse or just following creators live videos so when they go live. That's what I consider like a virtual event. But there's never been something so easily engaged, you could easily engage with the events, as opposed to just comment or with your voice I'm quite outspoken is like not comparable to anything else. So, by a mile clubhouse for sure
clubhouse is really interesting. I'd love to see comments though from the people listening in, wouldn't you.
Yeah, that'd be cool. It's, it's going to be really interesting to see how they scale also because the quality of users right now is really good. So I don't know how it's going to transition towards the future, but the invite like limit the amount of people you want to join the room, or might not even let down even half of the stage. It just, it's inherently like an unscalable product. In terms of quality it's going to just kind of wait and see. But the best thing I'm trying to do right now is learn as many people as many people as I can right now before it gets too saturated. And essentially, yeah just spend time here. It's about never. I'm learning more for people in clubhouse than I am in school.
That is a, that's a really
narrow and I think they probably increase. I would say at least over the past six weeks and still you think it's good now. It's changed, and
if you should have give me an invite back Come on,
you know, Silicon Valley right but, um, you know I think to your point about sort of concern around scalability. Yeah, I think that's part of what's really interesting is actually seeing diversification right and seeing that instead of there being like two or three rooms with like 10 or 15 people at any given time during the day. Now they're probably 25 or 50. And so I think it's, it's kind of like the next generation of talk radio right it's interactive podcasting it's it's fascinating to sit at my desk, you know, meaning something to crank out a report you ever have to do. And, you know, and chime in from time to time when, when there's something that makes sense. So, the scalability piece is. I actually I see where they're going and I think, you know, it's, it's really hard to build a platform like this and I sent on the management team something called my space. Once upon a time, you may have heard of it. I like to joke about that but you know he we we fucked up, because we almost had too many users to quit. And I think you know here's just the opposite right you know when it comes to building an app, you build for user experience first and then you start to design around that. I think the, the, the deliberate nature of how the founders are building here is truly incredible but how they're taking real time feedback from the audience, and the community to build around. You know I think just the efficacy of the platform is. It's really actually almost like a business school case study where you can actually be part of the experience, and also learn from the experience at the same time if that makes sense.
Yeah, I wonder if they're listening in on a conversation because I had a room like last week but the amount of like 120 people inside. And we were just talking about all the different features you'd want to see in clubhouse and all the manipulation like capability possibilities that could come from clubhouse. And I'm curious to know if you're like listening in our conversations we have like that, dummy account, it's just like inside all these rooms and like gathering all this data.
You know it's interesting because from a data gathering perspective, you know you've got like Alexa you've got Hey Google Siri, you know, every one of these devices is collecting data 24 seven. It's contextualized seeing you your conversations. Your psychometric psychographic DNA. You know, but there's probably nothing more effective than an app like this, or stereo, where you're getting real time. Audience sentiments on virtually everything I'm seeing ads about people bashing on Joe Biden, people bashing on Donald Trump. There's this marketing club, I mean there's so many different conversations going on right now, in real time, it's it's an invaluable fountain of of data.
The data component here is interesting, but actually it's not what people think. The founders here in there and if any of you guys, log on to the weekly townhalls right they've been really really vocal about the fact that this won't ever be an ad supported medium. And that, in that data, and I happen to kind of play in the data space. When it comes to how marketers and publishers, like sort of. They transact if you will. The, the, the business here is you know, is really going to be more based on content creation, and about, I think ebook you guys like Joe Budden you're on here all day long, right, and they're going to become the next generation of podcasters and that will probably be more of a sponsorship element. I think the data piece here, they actually, and I'm relatively certain made the statement that they don't intend to collect any type of data, outside of what you put on your profile for really for cohort purposes. But again, you know, I guess they're gonna have to at some point build a model here. And as they look to, you know, create revenue and ultimately satisfy investment, that's pretty aggressive. Yeah, that substitute change.
What do you do currently.
It's actually a funny question. I play games, you sort of sit between level four and level five who are angry birds, what not, in us, you've got to watch that annoying 15 second ad that probably comes from a company, expect better for the past seven years connecting with major marketers fortune 500 marketers agencies holding companies with the beauty of mobile gaming, although I'm leaving this week to go take over the commercial business or largest identity platform in Europe.
Oh wow, super interesting. Have you heard of a lucky day.
Yeah, they're actually the client
really no way.
Yeah,
my friends, the founder and actually, uncle. identity. Did you say identity. Recognition national keys.
So, there's there's a huge focus these days on consumer privacy when it comes to digital media right, and I think we've all seen concerns around, trust, Google and Amazon and whoever else right having to sit in front of a bunch of crotchety old 70 year old like as in Washington who doesn't understand anything about what they do. So, with. I'll give you one perfect example right, the cookie is about to be deprecated, and then with the announcement of iOS 14 in June. Apple really kind of shifted their focus from personalization to private, grab like a privacy first like consumer approach and go to market where you will start to see that you'll have to opt in to allow each and every app on your phone to track you for things like location or access to your microphone or access to your contacts. And with that, that opt in, it's going to change how marketers can access or gain access to consumers and user bases and how publishers can monetize their, you know, essentially their, their content or their assets, and that's going to shift to an opt in model, and
don't we already opt in no with Apple's notifications,
not native notifications Yes, but tracking is something different. So, meaning when you get a little modal that pops up on your, you know on your screen that says Do you want to allow the Weather Channel to access your current location. The answer is more often than not, yes, or, you know, over the past few years you've seen the introduction of the GDPR and ccpa which is legislation that really protects consumer privacy where you are, you're surfing the web on your desktop or your Mac. Yeah you allow you know you allow for the usage of cookies. Right, that's all going to change remarkably, and so identity is going to become more of a token based currency than a universal platform. Got it. For next four days I'm gonna sit here and play games guys are all quiet,
that's the that's the interesting part about clubhouse is that like once you've talked a lot of the moderators don't have anyone else. Anything else to talk about on stage just goes quiet for a sec. Can you try to like force conversation. And that's when the conversation gets boring because
yeah I mean, I play on here from time to time I used to run sales at Forbes. You know I've been a part of over $2 billion in venture backed acquisitions, I mean, if you guys want to ask questions, now's a good time I'm happy to happy to jump in with any type of, you know, thoughts or feedback some kind of feedback or conversations I don't use too often, but I'm happy to happy to hang and
Matt, it's it's it's great to hear from you. And the fact that you worked at MySpace, I haven't seen him in a couple of years but I used to hang out a lot with Tom Anderson and Ted dannic.
Amazing. Ted when you start a company called engage vdr.
That's right, that's right. Ted is killing it with engage I think he's got like some kind of a crazy valuation on the Australian stock market if I'm not mistaken,
Biggie kid. Yeah. I am I'm out of that game but yeah everybody was was Tom spring right. I wish, I wish, I still had those vintage t shirts or I wish you know Urban Outfitters start selling them. myspace gear was the best.
Oh man, that that logo absolutely timeless. And then I when I spoke to Tom I he told me started up a new Instagram I don't know if you've seen this maybe have. He has become a world class photographer.
Exactly. It's amazing. I think I don't know how many of you guys know the story my space, it was really interesting right my space was owned by a company called intermix intermix it's a holding company that is actually direct to consumer products back in the early 2000s. It was things like like basically like shaving cream. And my face was actually originally launched to just be basically like a second distribution, change it wasn't really about being Tom spring. And it was long time ago and those guys really understood, like direct response, better than anyone I've ever seen. And, you know, my space was, was a moment in time. And I think there's a there's a guy who just joined the room who probably, you probably leveraged MySpace for his musical talents, but my face you know we used to do secret shows all the time. We, you know, we help. Yeah, it's funny, I think. One Republic. Still looks back, you know, partnering with Timberland. You know early on with with, you know, with their success right and there were so many artists that came out of my face back in the day, you sort of like kickoff before take time, you know, we before that,
I remember even Lady Gaga did secret shows with MySpace and Interscope, and in LA She must have performed I think 20 times, and no no maybe like 40 or 50 times in 2006, or seven, and then I believe she like blew up that winter
shares probably about once a month. They were awesome. There was like a poster that accompanied every one of them. You know unfortunately when I got married my wife maybe take those off the wall, but they were definitely PC history but you know my space. If you look at the people who really helped. You know, my space had had a couple iterations series, pre, you know, Murdoch acquired nicely since 2004, and he acquired exec Ed. We didn't realize was, you know, coming back to the origins of this room, an hour ago, when you guys were talking about data. this guy I think his name's Brad, talking to us young artists right he was trying to figure out how to, how to build up his following. You know my face was doing that in a way where, you know, I think the recognition that we had and said we could leverage people's stories right that you know every profile told someone's life story, because they were putting so much information you need in there. And in that way, too. You know, I think, incredible opportunities for consumers. And for you know brands to recognize that media just have to advertise contextually but they could actually understand that you know someone who likes. Cheese he might also be your fan, right, they could just do more than just operate off of the, you know, theory, but they can actually have a data driven approach. And, you know, it was really, it was it was really kind of a, at the time you know Facebook came in and Facebook really seize the moment, but you know there were some analogies between clubhouse and Facebook right Facebook. In the early days, you know you had to be college. And, you know, college students. If you didn't have a you know.edu email address you couldn't get a Facebook account right. And it was almost essentially by invite only, and now you know club has to be paid only platform right, and eventually that will open up. But, yeah, this, this almost feels like the early days of Facebook in some sense.
I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on the next iterations of social media platforms. There's so much concern these days about privacy data collection. You know, there was a lot of talk about censorship, people being deep platformed for speaking pro or against certain kind of political people. You know, there's probably a larger conversation than this just to have just to decide if it's right or wrong. But do you see. Does anyone see like a future social media platform where it's based on,
check, check out the top parlor parlor Yeah,
I have you, have you seen steam it, and D tube, too. I'm very interested in steam it and I'm curious if anyone is going to build a social media platform on Steam its platform. It's completely decentralized in blockchain not ad driven. So anyone steam it's just like Reddit, anyone who creates a post, you get. There's tokens that are created and you get paid in crypto if it goes viral you make more crypto if you share it and it goes viral The, the person who shares it is a curator, they get earn crypto, if you like, downvote upvote comment, you get crypto for participating. It's a much lower amount. So everyone is incentivized to to interact with with all the content, but, you know, essentially, you could make a social media site that's totally decentralized and not ad driven off of steam it. I'm curious if, if we see a future like that and if that's something that we want.
So, I actually have some thoughts on steam it. I think it's I think it's coming from the wrong place when you build your incentive. If you incentivize or cash really long you're incentivizing for things that generate clicks and viewership which isn't necessarily a good concept. So community building versus what a social media site has to be has to start with a solid community. And by just incentivizing people to come up with workarounds and scams bots and all that stuff to drive clicks to their posts. In order to generate cryptocurrency to generate revenue themselves. I think you're starting a community in the wrong place. Happy to be proven wrong, and the parlor looks just like, you know, all right, Twitter, so not a pain there.
I'm curious to learn more about parlor. Yeah, I agree it's a lot of alt right and i think it's conspiracy theorists and and I'm wondering if that'll ever balance out. And is there an opportunity for a new platform where it kind of sits somewhere in the middle. You know Facebook has a certain kind of demographic. It's got a certain kind of vibe. younger people might consider it a lot of hate. A lot of division. Twitter has a vibe IAG is starting to feel dated by some people. It's kind of like the same content over and over. Daniel has been talking a lot about Tick tock, we've been focusing a whole ton on Tick tock, You know there was some concern earlier that Tick Tock was Chinese spyware malware at scale, you know and and is it better now that potentially Oracle and Walmart, own it, but yeah it's it's curious to see, you know like, Does, does monetization like steam it hurt, hurt the platform. Does it just incentivize interaction in the beginning to build that community. Do you do need that a tool like that to kick start it.
Tick Tock case study right they got the community first, and then introduce the creator fund doesn't pay you as much but it pays you a tiny bit amount for copying and printing out, but I feel like if they introduced to create a fun first you would incentivize clickbait type, type content. So I think the way Steven is doing it. Would it be as successful as opposed to just creating the community first.
But who knows I mean they might be hitting a different micro community and to start, you can
say I he rattled off a ton of a ton of platforms when I need to hear you talk about his trip. And, you know, obviously, trailer is kind of the kicked out clone. Right. In my travels I have never met anyone who actually used it to me it's sort of like a theranos social media platforms right it's got a billion dollar valuation or whatever the number is. And I think a lot of people talk about it but it seems to be a bit like vaporware, is anyone had any experience or
yeah I mean I talked a lot of creators, a lot like weekly ends, just in the trash UI compared to be completely blunt, it's just a poor man's Tick tock,
Daniel. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what triller needs to turn it around. Because when Tick Tock was about to be banned in the United States, a lot of Tick Tock creators, were trying to get on triller and get verified, and they were getting a lot of attention, triller, Eve, due to the attention I think they were able to secure a partnership with the big VC fund and they made a $20 billion offer to buy tik tok. And now I think triller, if I'm not mistaken just hired their 400 and 50th employee, they seem like they're scaling they're well funded, that doesn't mean that that the that the app is in complete vaporware, and it could because it could be what would they have to do to make it more compelling.
Good, get as good as an algorithm as Tick Tock has I think when Tick Tock sold to Walmart and Oracle. Right. They didn't sell the algorithm. They just sold the data.
They actually could sell anything, it's, it's kind of funny, you have to read between the lines there, where the press sort of misrepresenting, they're actually, it really just amounts to. Almost like data centers where. Yeah, like they beat the algorithm. The Tick Tock algorithm is the best in the world like unreadable like. It's really incredible I'm a 43 year old like white guy who sits like in my living room and like every night for an hour because I'm avoiding the news right, I go down to different fucking vortex. And it's fascinating right like where it sends me and how it keeps me engaged, where I think the average. I don't know what an average user session looks like. But a guaranteed time spent on Tick Tock Trump's just about anything else. It's truly mesmerizing I don't follow a single person, right, it just knows what I want.
I've never been more mesmerized by the sheer amount of talent in humanity. By just hanging out on tik tok for like 30 minutes. I mean, I'll see kids doing things that I didn't think was humanly possible. The curation and that algorithm is is next level and yeah, to your point, Daniel and Matt, you're right it's not even a real sale I believe it is a preferred partner hosting deal.
Yeah, totally. And to your point, I think there's like humanity and it makes me really good cuz yeah no idea so many moms in Middle America and Super Bowls and they were having
fun fact that like it gives an opportunity for anybody to gain a following see for less worried to post content that you would typically post on Instagram. It's just like, oh wow like this many people, like my content, I should post
more. I really feel like the first,
the second half of 2018 tech talk like push a lot of fake likes and fake views and fake comments incentivize content creators to become more enticed to create more content like the social proof aspect really drove a lot of the videos being created like someone with, you know, 10 followers gets a video with 20 million views, I guarantee you, they're more likely to post content now because have they gotten that one, like slyke stripe of dopamine. Dopamine like I know tons of craters that, like, pretty much every person, I've seen that started using Tick Tock regularly they posted like 10 to 15 times. I've seen success in at least one of their videos, whether that's 10,000 views or even 100,000 views, like 100,000 views I take targets absolutely nothing compared to like, there's like, different allegations of viral there's like you could feel like 100 thousands, kind of viral that like a million is like kind of out like 10 million plus is like really viral video now.
You actually just gave me a thought right you know it's really interesting how this platform, gives you the option to put your Twitter profile, right, or link to your Instagram profile. But why does it give you the options link to your Twitter profile I bet you that. Yeah, greater than 50% of the users on clubhouse probably are on tik tok right. But I think there's a challenge right because I think like Twitter's snackable, Instagram and snack bowl, you're probably on there for like a minute, two minutes you scroll and scroll, your key. Right. Whereas, you know, I think there's a danger in terms of competitive engagement practice where, you know, platforms don't think back to tick tock, because it is so engaging for the user. Right. Well,
How about like entire companies being funded off the back of tic toc having like a single place to post links, like link tree is crazy like their valuation is nuts, and basically just a tick tock button.
Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. There's a guy on here, his name's inishmaan he pops up from time to time you see ob MH in North America, and an issue is awesome you guys should always listen to him when he talks about the virality of Tick Tock and how critical it is for luxury brands right which is like mind blowing. Because you never would have seen luxury, like, like looking at Tick Tock and, you know, and now it makes something like link tree right you can, they can develop their own, you know, tool like that boom right they're off to the races, and it's fascinating. Getting back to tick tock for a second. what I think is really interesting is how tic tocs the future of the music business and how you know I think like when it comes to discovery. You know I was I took a two hour drive yesterday I live in New York I don't drive too often, right, I'll take long drives too often, but, you know, the songs that I heard playing radio terrestrial radio, we're like the songs that are being blasted over and over again on Tick Tock right. So, yeah, I'm an artist, totally changes distribution right and changes the music business, and it changes how, you know, I think, marketers and be like it musicians in the music industry can apply to create something truly unique and innovative and that to me is actually, probably one of the most interesting facets of what you're doing.
I completely agree with you like I live in Los Angeles and there's a ton of friends that I have their own positions, trying to start, you know, get some more streams. And I'm like, Why don't leverage Tick tock, and they're like, Oh, it's not a good image isn't that and like do like a top 40 out of the 50 songs and all this distribution platforms are from Tick tock, like regardless you're trying to like, if you're sitting, there's one thing about trying to curate your song in a way to make it. You know, like Tik talkie, but at the same time he tried to market your existing music on tik tok in some way possible. A lot of it has to do with the way the production of the song, and the lyrics align with the jump cuts and the video itself, which makes the video go viral. Like there's a ton of reigns of artists like getting hundreds of thousands of followers and even like hundreds of thousands of listeners on Spotify from one tick tock song like creates this whole avalanche of other videos being created I actually made a video about this, a year ago in like December, on my tech talk page. If you want I could save it and send it to you guys.
There's a good article about this, it's called. It was on the verge, I think it was called like the inventor of the three bedrooms. And it was just like a tick tock trope in terms of like the music that happens but like, he, he comes up with tracks specifically to fit on top dances, so he works like backwards from the dance. And he is responsible for like five of the top 10 trending Tick Tock signs at the time of the article. Anyways, this is super interesting. It was like 19 years old, out of his parents house.
Yeah, I think, you know, it's funny. I was like, lucky to dip a toe in the tic toc water. Right, I'm not going to be a creator. But it is. I don't know. It is really, it's hard to think of anything that is like influence culture, the way that you know again, like I think back musically musically was like, cool, but it was amazing. tik tok is really, it's it's truly incredible force in nature.
And it's honestly so interesting how all of the creators on the platform are so much more open to discussing and just talking to you as opposed to Instagram everyone on Instagram is all curated and like putting up a front whenever you try to reach out to them for us to talk, it's very unfiltered content like there's. It's really you in like, like what you're, you're passionate about or like this, what you want to post about there's no filter or anything it's all just realness unfiltered raw and open I actually realized that the community on tik tok when I posted over there is much more open and inviting. And of course content, and no one of our reposts our content on Instagram, the random people that would come to my page on the Export page because I posted on reels are very angry or just rude. Not all of them but a lot of them are more compared to tik tok.
You know what's missing from this conversation is Snapchat right is Snapchat dead, Snapchat, Snapchat is $66 billion valuation. We can ask
80% of tiktoks ad spend goes to Snapchat. So, I'd say that China is funded by buck. I
believe Snapchat. I could be wrong is mostly used as a messaging app by by the Gen Z, and the tweeners, and it's less like like a social media or, or a platform or a community.
Yeah, I think, you know, professional content producers, you know, again if you if you look at the discovery function within Snapchat. You know the NB C's the complex networks of the world. You know, they've really embraced it as an opportunity to get a little bit younger. But, but it's you know again conversations like this really interesting to understand the pulse of, you know, what people were thinking about right you know because again $66 billion. A lot of fucking money. And, You know the fact that I think the stock went up like a pray, he went somewhere somewhere between 30 and 40% after their earnings call. Two weeks ago. That's zonkers. And so somebody else in the asset somebody out there is, is still using it, and embracing it, and they're using it for more than just disappearing, you know, actually,
my sister is currently, you know, going on 17 years old, and all of her friends, use Snapchat she has a harder time deleting Snapchat that she has leaving tik tok.
I believe that. You said you believe that. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I'm waiting for someone to create like serious, you've tik tok has this like sort of synergy with the music business, I'm waiting to see like, who can create the great sports social network. Yeah, I feel like that's long overdue. And I mean ESPN alone so yeah i mean i look at Twitter is the closest thing right you know where I'm sitting in my living room watching the NBA screaming through my Twitter feed. Right. But I think you know there's there's an awesome opportunity there as well.
Twitch. I think twitch could do that in the future, that that's that's my whole take actually
possible. Yeah, but I feel like it's got to be born organically right,
doesn't mean you need the rights though so like Amazon has already purchased like rights to stream various games. Right, so like they have that they have the Ott platform. They have money, they have like a ton of engaged people already talking about games. So, you know definitely different game, but doesn't feel like the most natural platform that could kind of transition beer to swap the medium games.
bat. I think Twitter tried that right there Twitter had Twitter bought the rights to to NFL games, a couple years ago, they've definitely done a good job of optimizing content to let me know that is a premier league fan I know like on Saturday or Sunday morning, my team is playing it's top of my feed. And it's become a true second screen experience but you know it's also a lot of mixed messaging where you know, when I want to focus on sports I'm still seeing politics and I'm still seeing, you know, professional stuff and I'm still seeing, you know like, my you know my neighbor's cousin. And I want to see sports. And I think there's there's I think there's a huge market there, and Twitch is twitch to me is sort of like the aggregator. But I think there's got an even niche glaze somewhere in there as well. And I think that that applies to food also right i think that there's such a community around food that you know Yelp is great for reviews, right. Even Instagram to some degree is great for, you know, sort of recognizing what you know what you're what you're potentially about indulging but you know I feel like there. There are opportunities to grow lots of you know sort of niche networks that you know that we'll find really kind of. If you think about the concepts of media and you think about, you know, the whole concept of like concentration, right, you can find really passionate users and I think, you know, like you're starting to see that in the sneaker space now you're starting to see more content right we're like hypebeast and highsnobiety done a great job of building content for you know sneaker heads right complex builds great content for sneaker heads, you know, who's going to do that for foodies, and you know i think it's it's been a fragmented market it becomes a really interesting social play.
We were talking about Twitch. A few minutes ago I'm wondering if anyone is using any other live video platforms YouTube Live Facebook Live. Is anyone using periscope anymore, Periscope Twitter curious.
They killed it off,
Periscope is dead. Yeah. Wow, so no more live video on Twitter,
is it actually dead, or is it just like nobody's using it.
I'm pretty sure they discontinued support.
At one point,
I could be wrong but, but I think they they introduced some of the guys who were behind vine introduced something called bite. B yt. Earlier this year, that also
died.
Vine died. Yeah. No, but it, I don't know, I can't I can't keep track
so periscope was used, eventually to to broadcast live video directly on Twitter. Does that mean Twitter no longer has any live broadcast ability.
I guess that means yes,
that's funny, Periscope
watched a stream the other day,
maybe, maybe they just absorb the technology and got rid of the periscope brand then.
Yeah, and there was also a challenge because you could then, like, sit in front of your TV and you can prepare a scoop on you know on an MLB game. Right, which then kills the whole concept of having, you know, broadcast network pay rates.
Yeah, that's, that's it's such a curious conundrum cuz I know in the early days, people would broadcast a UFC pay per view. Yeah, right. And then you're just completely going around the paywall so yeah I'm wondering if that had something to do with it.
When we're gonna fix this ad platform. Like, because they have such potential there, and it read it almost to remember that it's a bit more toxic than most. But it's so crazy how far behind they are, if they just hired, like a dedicated time to it. You can't imagine they wouldn't just take like a giant chunk of it actually worked.
It's interesting that Twitter stats for platforms, pretty effective in that it's all Dr. Right. It's really
busy.
I've tried to run your ads on Twitter for a decade with with zero left across like every brand.
I mean, I guess, you know, there's a there's a bit of, you know, skill that goes into you know beating and targeting properly.
Bush or I just always kind of found it was like an awareness play the loss of engagement, sometimes get plays, it can be okay for like b2c consumer apps can work okay because they have like the direct install
that's that that's that that's the moneymaker right that's the that's the engine right there. And then when you plug in mopub which is their third party like app marketplace. On top of that, I mean that's that's the killer, and they're like sharing the advertising revenue right now it's like
doing the single digit percentage points, it's probably under five.
The challenge with Twitter is environment, right, it's, it's really brand safety and a function of, you know how many major marketers. If you were looking at, you know, the big holding companies and either represent, like, how, how many of them are willing to to render Jason to a Trump tweet.
Oh yeah brand safety is a big issue especially with trending ones during the election Duracell Energizer had a competing advisor something, and I would sit next to Trump tweets. Every single time I was looking at popping up screenshots because I was like I got to share this with people it's
absolutely wild. Yeah, it's a, it's a big challenge and perception is everything right adjacency is, you know, the biggest fear of the media buyer or a media planner is that they're gonna you know they're gonna run adjacent to something wild and wacky that, you know, somebody screenshots, you know, becomes the next front page story on BuzzFeed.
Anyone have ideas for the next topic.
Most recent marketing growth tactics, anyone has any cool little tidbits of information or gems you would like to share about how they make things go viral just as opposed to tick tock, or just, I don't know, cool cases you guys have heard of the past. I always find it interesting.
You know I was talking to a young musician. And she's like, you know, I don't really know anyone like very influential or high net worth or anybody that can really propel my career, and I'd like to start meeting music executives this new thing. And, you know, this is this is nothing new but I told her, you should literally start your own podcast, and then get on LinkedIn make a list of 100 of the most influential people that you want to meet and just let them know you'd like to meet them you, you should build your own platform, not just depend on your music, but build a platform where you can interview these people, or tell them you're writing a book, and then just get a chance to have a face to face time with them. And it's this isn't a tactic to get viral obviously, but to just jumpstart your immediate network.
Definitely. That's amazing. Anyone got a start small, start somewhere for sure setting a goal like that is amazing. Honestly, it's showing up on LinkedIn people are always looking into that aspect, you know, I got reached out to for a podcast with him I'm like, Oh, that's great. I get to have a podcast. Let's say fine who gets to have my insights on his podcast.
You know, I was, I got reached out to by an AI marketing, Professor about a month and a half ago. He's launching a new book, later on this month. And although he's kind of a marketing genius, he, you know, just like all of us he doesn't really know how to market himself, so I'm kind of helping him and his first question is what, what should I do to like you know get this book out there I want the book to go viral. And I told him, I've never marketed a book so I have no idea. I don't know the first thing about marketing a book, but what I would do is I would project yourself as a world class thought leader, you know, and he says you know he's spoken at, I don't know like Harvard and MIT and he's got clients like Boston robotics and Google's in all these types of companies, but he's not like well known in the traditional sense to the layman. So I said, Well, here's what we're gonna do we're gonna produce your own virtual conference. And we're going to curate 150, maybe 200 of the biggest speakers in ai, ai marketing and AI guerilla marketing, and we're gonna put you at the top of the food chain, and we're gonna make your book, The presenting sponsor. And when we started, and when I told him to make me a list of 200 of the just wish list of speakers, you know he already knew like a quarter of them, but there was also a whole bunch that he didn't know. But just reaching out to them on on LinkedIn. These people were beyond ecstatic to speak, and I mean this is literally like a who's who of the AI, and the marketing world. And, you know, I think, literally anybody else could do this. If you are a small bagel shop owner, you could create bagel con, and just bring in the best paid pastry chefs to speak at your conference. Whatever your age, whatever your vertical whatever your product, service or message. Everybody should build their own platform and create their own virtual conference or virtual summit. I think content right now is a great time to to really help inspire, educate, and share with people because everyone's attention is on the next move and how to pivot and evolve.
All facts.
Love that I'm totally taking notes, it's my first marketing club podcast. I'm really appreciating the conversation guys, and I'm curious. As somebody who is like an avid tik tok user in my personal life but in my professional life I work in nonprofit communications and I just have not seen like Ernest causes anything nonprofit or social justice or cause related. You know, really work out on some of these newer platforms actually clubhouse included, and I was just wondering if folks can speak on that a little bit I'm seeing folks BIOS a couple folks BIOS here that you know they are interested in engaging with. If you've worked in nonprofits or engaging with nonprofits and I'm just curious what do you think are some of the differences and nonprofit should be aware of, or just anybody that you think is doing this really well.
I think there's someone I can point you out to that. You should kind of emulate their content style like look. You might think that there's not as much as in need of a need for content based around nonprofits, but I think it's more about how you position your content. There is an account called lib to trade on tik tok, where she just helps undiscovered artists get exposure, because you think you deserve it like a lot of these you know platforms aren't really promoting undiscovered artists as much as they should. So he doesn't gain any profit off it, but just the way that he storytelling, his idea for this is something you should definitely check out for sure.
Thank you. And can you just say that name one more time I think I missed it
live, to create. Cool. Thank you. Horse.
I don't see enough charitable organizations on Tick tock, and maybe they're just not curated for my feed. So I don't have a lot to say on that. But what I will say is this one of the first cut one of the first channels that I started following was the, I believe it was the Washington Post, and somebody did a story on them. They were, they're kind of going viral at the time, and people wonder, this is 150 year old newspaper. What business do they have on Tick tock, creating content for 13 year olds like, how is that even relevant. You know this is a print publication. But when you started watching the Washington Post, and whoever was behind I thought was genius, they kind of took a page out of the the hit TV show the office and kind of made like a mockumentary feel of what the behind the scenes of working at a boring newspaper kind of looks like. And there's like this, this character of the guy who's in charge of their Tick Tock at the Washington Post, who's kind of like the face of it, but you can see like how he takes inspiration from the office, and it makes it really interesting like behind the scenes and I think that would work well for, for, for charities as well because it may not sound that exciting but I think it really could be when you really focus on the people behind it, the passion, the people who are benefiting from it. The stories. I think there's a plethora of stories that that need to be shared. Maybe just repackaged and repurposed in a way that people aren't used to optimized for the tick tock culture, which is I think the most important part about Tick tock, is the culture, the culture is so accept accepting. It's so loving. It's so non judgmental. It's inclusive, you know. This month we saw angry reactions go viral. This is, I mean sky looks like he's 300 pounds. Angry looking black kid. Traditionally, not very attractive by normal social standards, but the guy's got like 8 million followers I mean this guy is an absolute star. You know, I'm seeing kids with half their face burned off going viral, another girl with two legs missing. She's kind of going viral with their prosthetics. People are bringing their grandparents on video there's a 90 year old guy who who dances like crip walk style, go and video so I think the culture can be really utilized for charity and I haven't seen anyone do well. So I think that tells me there's a huge opportunity to own that.
Well, thank you.
I will see the one sort of category that I've noticed as it really well but they do it really well across everything is is sort of pets in adoption right they tug on your heartstrings like anything. And I don't know what your causes but I can't not stop and like watch like the story of like a dog being adopted whether it shows up in my Instagram stories or, you know, on Tick Tock. And I think there's probably a lesson to be learned from just the, the storytelling and the tone. Right, and everything so he's gonna have a happy ending but but you know I think the, the engagement, the effectiveness there is probably pretty strong.
Matt that's a really good point, I just, you just made me realize a YouTube that I follow his hopes for pause. I don't know if anyone watches that it's an animal rescue charity. I don't have an animal, I don't have. I've never really owned a pet. But every time there's a video I have to watch it. And what's great is you'll see these animals that are so like, they're in terrible shape. Looks like they haven't had any attention for like, maybe months or even like a year, sometimes starving. They've got fleas everywhere and it's kind of like a before and after. And it's a quick little video, and they're not on Tick Tock but hopes for paws should absolutely be on Tick tock, I feel like they would go viral and it pulls on your heartstrings but man it's it's just people love watching those kind of success stories I think
I love to learn Laurie about what your charity is and what what is the message, what are your goals and objectives. Yeah, well
I wish it was really cute puppies who just need a home. It would be great, although I, I'm not opposed to adding puppies. But I work on like Global Women's Rights with a focus on sexual and reproductive health and rights. So mostly like women leaders activists outside of the US, who are you know standing up to their governments or communities to advance these issues and so you know we're, we're a fund I am really interested I am really interested in telling these stories in a way that doesn't promote, kind of like poverty porn. You know, in a way that is empowering and there are so many misconceptions about, you know, even just people who don't live in the US, so much of the media we consume is so us centered. So that's a big fear that I have is I don't just want to tell a story about, you know, tragedy or disempowerment but I really do like the idea of just focusing on you know human connection storytelling. And we do want to be in spaces where, you know, other nonprofit organizations or charities just aren't you know what I've seen traditionally is that by the time you become a leader in the nonprofit space you're you tend to be older and so folks are just scared to enter some of these, some of these, you know, platforms and to enter these new spaces and they don't want to get it wrong so they just avoid it completely. And so I am trying to break down some of those barriers, but it feels like there's a lot that you can do wrong and, and the proven benefits aren't necessarily there yet.
I would definitely urge you to speak to Daniel offline. He's got some incredible insights on Tick tock, and he would probably be really valuable to help you guys craft your story. We were talking earlier about how McDonald's and Coca Cola, you know, to the biggest brands that could benefit from the tick tock audience have zero presence. And it's, it's kind of like what you said Laurie, rather than do it wrong they'd rather just avoid it completely. You know we're seeing kind of an analysis paralysis, with these brands and with Tick Tock it's just sometimes like Gary Vee says you just got to go fast like break things and fail a lot, and on the, on the way you like kind of create craft your story and and share your journey. But yeah, I think Daniel would be great to speak with you on that.
Definitely, yeah, thanks for the. Thanks for mentioning me. Jen, also. Yeah, it's took off at this point you shouldn't really create this whole mood board for what you're trying to post like stop focusing on where you're going to post and just start posting and iterate off of that. One good resource that I've learned a lot from is actually he's in this chat room he was Michael. He has the largest group on Facebook for growing on tik tok, so I check out his group on Facebook as well.
Appreciate that.
One thing I would say to Lori and I think everybody listening is really trying to figure out why you're on jsoc At what point and the goal is up on the platform, you know, I think we're just getting on it, get on it because I feel like it's the thing they're supposed to be but they don't really have a core intention. So, one thing I would ask you and you know you can answer right now or just think about it like, what's the incentive behind it. Are you trying to drive sales or awareness traffic to the website traffic to your events, you know campaigns you want to like you know connect with the community and build out a following, because each one of those things is going to be a different direction in which you create content based upon so if you're trying to do sales, you might want to talk about something different than building company culture or community and stuff you know so that would be the biggest thing and then the second one I would say once you have that answer is really consider what your content is and who you're trying to reach out to and engage with, and what are the emotions you want them to feel by seeing your content, but I think a lot of times people will do some cute little dance to a music or whatever.
I know you don't want to do that based off of like bad experiences, it'd be kind of interesting if you could do like micro interviews with women in the workplace or just general like wherever they might be, where they don't show their face or anything, you just hear their stories and you hear their emotion behind it, and you really try to create the content in a way where other people who are seeing it are like, that's me like that I've had that same problem where I've dealt with that too or I've had that adversity in life, because I feel like if you can make it, where like you said you're not showing, you know, Daniel's face and, you know, he can do some facial expression and crying whatever but just hearing the voice with them like turned around, or the mass volume or something like that I think that'd be really really interesting for people to be able to connect with, there's a channel that I'm muscling similar on Tick tock, where they just talk to homeless people, they show who they are, but they just ask them what's one lesson that you've learned since being homeless, that you would want everybody to know and it's really really like gut wrenching because on the positive side says negative etc. But they actually have a charity, and they have a homeless shelter. So a lot of people watch it and like wow, that was so elegant or. I love how they worded that I would love to like donate help out or find out some more about their stories. And then what they do is they also started to write up a pieces on each one of those people they've interviewed, and so they'll like do a longer form interview like oh this is Laurie. This is all she's done this is her background etc so drives a ton of traffic to their blog that then, you know, they asked if you want to donate to the homeless shelter.
Hey,
hey what's up Cassie,
ah, not much it's beautiful outside,
it is.
Yeah.
Oh man, it's like last two weeks ago no two weeks ago is like a blizzard 25 degrees freezing. Last week it was actually warm. No, I'm in Minnesota.
25 degrees and like he's so dramatic and I'm like wait i don't think
that would be pretty dramatic, a little extra there Jen.
Okay, you're in Minnesota.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You said yeah, two weeks ago was in the 20s Where's it at now.
So, this past week it was nice. It was like 60 degrees felt tropical practically. And then now it's rainy again.
Okay. Yeah, all over the place but yeah no I'm, I'm good. Like I said, I'm just like really happy that like the elections over even though some people still want to act like Trump is gonna fight this and something may change I don't think so.
Yeah, well I mean he is, he has litigating in seven states so he is gonna, you know, the process will be very drawn out, unfortunately.
Yeah, I think we all kind of saw that coming though.
Yeah, yeah, hopefully, I mean it's this year has just been painful it's like the last thing that we need that anybody needs
right for anything else to linger.
Totally, totally Oh, my goodness. What a yeah oh my god.
Ah I know I feel like, you know, it's pretty much since everything happened with this till now it's just been like,
oh my god like seriously like when everything went down late last year like man I was kind of like in a dark place and I was just like, oh my god this is what is with that whole thing with Ray and everything.
Oh my god. It's been a year now,
it's been a freaking year that it's that's so it just seemed like yesterday,
it also feels like a dream and like it didn't actually happen it's so bizarre.
Will so much of everything is like so bizarre like last year, I was hospitalized for so long, I was, you know like, I was, I was connected to an IV at home for man like half the year. So,
that is seems so unreal.
I know like, like, I was like, dealing with like a depression because I thought I thought they were gonna have to like amputate my toe or even my left foot. Because then yeah, cuz once it got to bone infection like it was, it was like Loki scary like beyond scary.
Yeah, and at the same time you're trying to just like remain solid and seem like everything's totally afloat and cool at best like
that's a lot of people,
totally, totally and you know you don't you don't really have a lot of people that you can share that with you can't like it. I mean with a, like an Asian family, you can't really share that kind of stuff. I mean they would just literally lose their minds. Yeah, so
your work environment was so different though I mean you and Rob were like the first people find out I was pregnant. Like, and like that that's what I was going through this time last year
I.
Holy crap, I completely forgot about that I died. You told me about that.
Yeah, we were in the elevator. You and Rob we were like on our way to see DJ swivel.
Whoa, not remember that
there was a lot going on.
That was the last thing probably in the back of your head oh
my god I'm so sorry wow that is crazy yeah DJ swivel I still talked to him.
Yeah, he seems like a really cool guy I mean I don't know, did you guys end up doing stuff with us with him are you more just like kind of kept him as a close connection friend.
Um, so, I mean, me and him just kind of like became friends I did a couple ag labs with them I did a couple video podcasts and hosted a music event, and. But yeah, that whole thing got so messed up because when we, the three of us went to his office. We were supposed to onboard, like those BTS songs, and then somehow the conversation got into, well why don't we just finance and buy out your whole catalogue. And, right, you're just like, Why the heck. Why the heck are we talking about that. where are we, where's the money for that.
And man, we don't do that and we don't have money to do that. And then all of a sudden he had
dollar bills in his head and he's just like, oh well forget listing my stuff on vest, why don't I just get $15 million out of these guys like out a blog. And I'm like, No, I'm thinking, like in my head I'm screaming, I'm like,
what do you do. Oh,
God. So then, for three months, I'm dealing with him calling me like, Hey how's it looking on that 15,000,016 17 million. And I'm like, bro. I like can't even get a paycheck here. Right. You know, like, oh god that was just the worst. Yeah, that was just that was next level to like,
kind of help them out.
Well, you know, I still have all my equity. Yeah. And so, if, if that they go completely like out of business. All my work goes to nothing. And I'm owed a lot of money. I was for a long time, right, I was supposed to get a raise in the January of 2018, and then I reminded them like five or six times they're like, Oh, we got you we got you don't worry. So I just, I just, you know, bit the bullet. And I never got that raise never got like any kind of like bonuses or any of the structure that that I had kind of secured forget forget about that Gary Vee party, like, had I had I resold that as a sponsorship. That would have been like $250,000 in my pocket, you know, like to get that kind of branding for free, like I could have just resold that. But we gave it, I gave it to us because that's my company so I don't want them to go under obviously because then I can never get paid,
right yeah i think i mean probably feels the same way.
Yeah, I mean he's probably owed some money and like there's probably quite a bit in the investors, there's a lot of investors that I know who just be like, so it's like a double edged sword it's like a part of me is just really bitter. And then, yeah, a part of me is like, fuck why I don't want it to die because you know it's just, it's just kind of killing the two years I spent on that thing as well.
I know it is such a like there were a couple times where I was like should I just, like, reach out to ra because like I was just so hurt that they just like had someone else, let me go and then didn't even say bye to me like it was just such a slap in the face. That's what it felt like. But, like I should have. I don't even want to say should have I just had thoughts of maybe being like, Rob I know it was like a really stressful time sure it still continues to be stressful. We're all going through things in our own personal life while also trying to make everything work and I know you never meant for things to happen with Ray you just hoping things would work out. Yeah. But I was like you know maybe just. It is what it is you know, and this whole pandemic happened I'm like, it's really no point in talking about work right now.
Oh my god the pandemic the economic collapse civil unrest.
Yeah, it's just been one thing after the other and, like of course I'm, I'm wanting to work I'm the type of person that likes to stay busy and likes having a purpose and everything, but it's felt sort of like damn near impossible unless I want to work at Target or something of that nature not not downing any of that, those types of jobs but like I didn't work really hard to do that.
Well, you've got way bigger fish to fry than target. I mean, you're such a good talent, building relationships with artists. You're such a good communicator. relationship builder, like you're somebody who should be building partnerships and forging alliances and building businesses together that's that's more of a leadership role. That's what
I love to do that. I just don't even know like, Where to begin with and it seems like I was talking to one of my friends who's working in like the legal part of talent. And she was, she used to work for like an actual talent agency, but apparently all those are like shutting down.
When you say all those. What are you afraid,
just like talent agencies are having a really hard time right now. Even she was saying even labels are having a really hard time right now.
So yeah, you're right, CAA UTA ICM. I mean between them they've let go. Thousands of agents, like thousands.
Yeah.
If you're not bringing a huge revenue, the cash flow. Crunch just really like hurt a lot of businesses.
Yeah. Yeah,
so I'm not special and like, you know, losing a job and looking for work. But yeah, I'm hoping that with the shifts happening now maybe it's just, it's too hard to tell because there's so much talk of like, oh Biden's gonna shut everything down again. Who knows if that's true but
you know today Pfizer just announced that they had a vaccine. That's literally like 90%, effective. And then on top of that, if you look at all the data coming from the PCR tests, which are the most widely used COVID test in the world that New York Times. Wow, I think, Harvard Medical Review, MIT, so many of these major publications. They audited the effectiveness of the PCR test, and they came to find out this was announced in late August, that the PCR test gives up to 90% false positives. Oh shit. So it's almost worthless. And if they're not saying, 90% are false positives but they can give up to 90% false positives. So, Yeah, that's the case, then potentially 90% of all the numbers are not really real numbers.
And that's scary.
It's further backed up by a Facebook group that I'm in called the survivor Corps, and there's 150,000 people in this of people who work in the medical industry as nurses and doctors and people who are hospitalized and infected with COVID and the consensus here, literally on every other post. And these are from people who are like working in hospitals, they're like yeah, these, these tests are absolutely worthless. You know this woman came in, she couldn't even breathe she got three tests, and all of them came to came out negative. And basically told her these tests are so bad most likely you have it. No matter how many tests say that you don't.
Wow.
So that tells me is between the vaccine and between bad testing. And the fact that it wasn't always like this but now you know the ICU use emergency rooms the hospitals. No one is over capacity at all in any respect. So I want to say we're probably on the seventh or eighth generation of this virus. Probably burning itself out.
I hope so, I really really hope so. I thought they were saying on the news that there were two states that were having that issue though with capacity in the hospitals, like ones that kind of weren't worried about it before I want to say, Illinois. And maybe Wisconsin. Hmm.
Interesting.
But I do, I think you're right though as far as like it's dying itself out because even people I know that have gotten it has said like their symptoms were no where as like intense as what they were saying it was like in the beginning of this year.
Yeah, yeah, I have a feeling that a symptomatic positives are just completely rampant. And I'm not I'm not ever going to be one to say, Oh, it's just like the flu or whatever, but it just seems like well everybody knew like with a novel virus, after it gets passed down like a few generations. It completely dilutes itself. And by now, it's got to be like 789 generations deep, and it's probably really divert diluted and or there's probably massive herd immunity, whereas countries like Vietnam and Singapore I just talked, I just talked to a person in Singapore. They've had zero cases for a month and a half.
That's amazing.
Vietnam has had zero cases for like three or four months, I want to say, Taiwan is there, Korea's there. Obviously there's some places that are like hotbeds and hotspots. But again, who knows the data could be wrong because everyone seems to be asymptomatic.
Yeah. When I saw I just went home and then when I came back I found out that. Well, my cousin, just tested positive but then again he like left for five days ago, to like a college town and party because he's going to Brown University, but they are so strict. He can't go to college until January so he's just been doing all online courses from home, but like the, the one weekend he was like, because this whole year he hasn't been able to do anything his mom like let him for Halloween. Go up to like Orlando and party with his friends, and. Yep. He got it. But his symptoms like we're not intense and maybe it's less intense for younger people too, but he said he feels like it's just like a regular flu just tired and it's just sleeping.
I mean, we definitely shouldn't like be going out there and doing somersaults, but. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't, you know, I guess I wouldn't live based on like fear of getting it either.
Yeah, no, you can't live like that, you make yourself sick just worrying all the time.
Totally or not going outside and getting vitamin D or exercising. So, yeah, I just I feel, I feel good I feel like I'm in a good place I feel like the world is in a good place and I see like a light at the end of the tunnel for sure.
Me too. Definitely, yeah I'm glad I'm glad to hear you say that, as well.
Yeah, yeah. what. So what, what's your plan like you said you're kind of working on yourself. And I believe. Earlier this year, a me cooked you up with a with a job somewhere right
yeah it was just, um, it wasn't really, you could think it was a job because I made money but really wasn't a job it was just, there's this Chinese app called Zen. And they needed American influencers. So I signed up, people with followings. And basically I got a, like a percentage of every person that signed up and made videos, but
it's like curating like an influencer community,
kind of, basically I was like managing 40 influencers, and making sure that they were consistently posting and making sure that like their posts were pay worthy.
Right, right.
But then it started to dwindle down just like it I assume it would with any app like Tick tock, you don't need to pay people to use it anymore people are going to just use it on their own. And so it got like a little stressful with like payments and stuff because then they would be like, not like a Meeks talent agency but like the actual people that work for the app, and China would be like, no, we're not accepting this video or we're not accepting that video but they wouldn't say why. So then my people started getting frustrated because they're like, I made a video I did the work. This has x amount of views on Tick Tock like there's no reason.
Wow, so they started to renege on the deal.
Yeah. And so then I kind of pulled out and I didn't want to seem like ungrateful for the situation but it's like, kind of the same thing with with us it's just like, I want to keep good relationships with all of these people and if they have been told they're going to be paid and then they're not paid like that, it always is gonna fall on me because I'm the one setting this up so yeah I don't know how involved, him and his, his fiance still are with that but like I kind of just had to like, step, step away cuz.
Yeah.
Got it, got it. Have you thought about. Like if that was, if that was kind of like if you're kind of managing a talent agency. Have you thought about maybe managing like influencers like on your own umbrella.
I would I just wouldn't know what to do with that because like obviously I know a lot of models and influencers and people with high followings. I thought I've thought about individually helping people like get endorsements or something like that, like I have my friend Anastasia who's actress was like what if you like, just helps me get jobs as far as like posting for like skincare products I like or. Yeah, something like that but I would like to do something on a bigger scale if I'm going to do that.
Sure, sure. I started working with a you know Lauren Compton. So she is a comedian actress and a model. And then she went viral this summer for tik tok video called the wipe it down
challenge. Yeah,
that's cool yeah
yeah so got like 12 billion views collectively, and then she ended up getting a million followers from it, her own personal views on that video, hit like 67 70, million, and then shortly thereafter, ESPN copied it out he and then the NBA Finals did a commercial with it. So, it got a lot of traction and then we started talking and she's like, Hey, can you help me navigate like some of these deals like I have a million people calling me blah blah blah. And since I have like so much free time I just started helping her navigate it. And that would be like an awesome business for anybody. And a lot of maybe half the brand's can't even afford her because she wants like her minimum base video to be 20 $500. And then some people are like, I can't afford more than 1000. But if I represented more people, I could funnel those jobs to other people. So, if you have people with high follower accounts, you could do the same thing I'm doing with Lauren, and you could easily manage like 10 of these people. And then, if, if there's not like a product market fit for somebody who wants to hire one of your people. you could start reaching out to other influencers and create like a bigger talent agency, and you'd get so much deal. The more people you represent the more deal flow you get. And the majority of the people reach out to them are not even good fits. So it would be like beneficial for you to represent other people who could be a good fit. when it's not a good fit for the main person.
Right. So you're saying I would like reach out to different brands and say hey I manage this person. Would you be interested in having them post for you or something like that.
Yeah, yeah. Well, you could you could do the outreach for them. Absolutely. But if they have high follower costs they already probably have people reaching out to them and they'll
need someone to help, they just
want somebody to filter through that garbage. You know, reach out to them and say what is this for how long do you want the video does there need to be a text overlay. Do you need captions hashtags. Do you want to link in the bio, how long do you want the link. All you can't afford a 32nd video Well how about a story. We can do a story for half the cost, or one fourth of the cost like somebody negotiate, because they should just be busy being creative and making video, and they kind of need someone else to like handle like the business part of it.
Right.
It's like, I've thought about things like this but it's obviously a lot easier to have a clear vision when you're talking to someone who's kind of.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, we've got Lauren like quite a few gigs, maybe like 15,000 worth in the last couple of months amazing. Yeah, and again like more than half these brands. They didn't want to spend the money on her, so I needed like smaller people, so I'm like I need to I personally need to find more people. So, you know, I met. I ended up meeting a viral police officer who's like the Mr. Rogers of tik tok he's got
like always like dancing with the kids in the, in the neighborhood yeah
he's like, interacting with everybody. I started talking with him and he needs help, dealing with these brand deals. I talked to these three big black football player looking dudes who are not good dancers but they try to be, and they're really popular because of their effort, and they're called the. They're called the basement game so I'm working with them.
Like a percentage of whatever the brand is willing to pay them 20% 20% okay so it's basically just like a manager for music,
basically a manager or an agent. It's so, you know, if the brands paying 1000 I collect 2000. I'm sorry, 200.
Do you have to, like, create like a, like a legal thing are you just doing it like cash under the table.
So, with Lauren, I didn't create a DBA or an LLC, but now that I'm working with the basement gang of this police officer. And now that I have so much deal flow. I personally need to find more influencers, I'm looking for a dancer. I'm looking for a rapper, I'm looking for somebody in every vertical. And then I need somebody in the half, half a million range, a million range to 510. So I want, I want it. Ideally, I'd love to get like 30, kids. so I have every base kind of like covered. And then this keeps me busy like all day because I'm not socializing at all. Yeah, but this is something anybody could do. And, you know, you know you should. I made. So, so, Lauren was like, you know, I'll easily give you 20%. If you handle sending out my decks. And I'm like, that sounds like way too much work. I'm not going to send out decks to people. But what I will do is I'll make you a website, and I'll make it look like a deck. and then I'm going to just give the link to those people, which is so much easier. So, I will show you what that I'm going to send it to you right now. You could make this so easy. I mean, a monkey could make this, I am a monkey. I made it therefore that's living proof. Pop block PR calm. So this is like some, like, it's like a bullshit URL I bought like years ago, but I made it go to the Lauren Compton deck, let me tell me if you see it.
Okay, yeah.
So it just looks like a deck right. Yeah,
it's really awesome. Yeah, she put this together, I
did. Wow, but this is, um, this, all of this is a template
I was doing videos on Xin to
what's that
the thing I was telling you that I was hoping to meet with oh no way on that. Yeah, no, I totally recognize her she was doing really well on there.
Oh good audio. I've never heard of Xin.
Yeah, it will cuz it's not an American app it's in China,
gotcha gotcha. So, um, so I made this because I didn't want to keep sending out decks to people. But you could you could make like this is a splash site and it's a template for free off Wix and. Wow. Yeah, like any like a five year old could have could have made this.
Very cool. I haven't used Wix in a long time but I can tell just by looking at this that they have done a lot to make
it way cooler. Hmm. So, Wix is great Squarespace is great. Um, I think what is it Weebly WordPress. There's so many templates sites and, like, you don't need more than like this for a lot of the functionality like if you look at the vest website, holy crap that's like so simple and I just realized how simple it is. Oh my god I could have done in half an hour. So, what you could do is literally make a splash site for every single one of your clients, just like this, and then have them pay for the URL and the hosting fees. And then all you do is you manage it, take a 20% Commission.
Yeah,
your business could be way bigger than any job.
I mean, I love this idea just because it's already something I have, like, I don't need to find people, these are already like connections I have and stuff and I think all of them are always looking for, you know, other ways of income.
Totally, totally. Yeah, and they probably have so many people hitting them up and so many emails. They may not respond to all of them, and just have them forward all the emails to you, you'll respond on their behalf. And then, you, you, you can negotiate everything just come up with a little questionnaire for the clients like what are you looking for Do you want an ID, you want a tick tock, do you want both, how long is it, what is it, do you know just have like a questionnaire. And then, and then figure out a pricing sheet for every one of your influencers. How much does it cost for story. How much for a post. How much for both. How much for a bundle. How much for a tick tock, how much for you know like whatever whatever products that they want to sell. So you make a pricing sheet for all of them.
So smarten
up here. Oh, and I think you'd be so great at it you've got the perfect personality, you've got the, the voice for it. You're very like nurturing, I think you'd be great with influencers, and then the brands would love you because you sound like somebody that you know they can trust, and you know brands are so afraid of talking to influencers directly because there's so they're so flaky, so they just want to talk to a serious person, so they know that their money isn't just going down the trash
trail and I mean this whole influencer thing isn't going anywhere. It's probably only going to continue to get bigger honestly so it seems silly to not do something in this world.
It's never going anywhere. I G could disappear Tick Tock could disappear, but there will always be new platforms that need this yeah
already proven itself a million times. This is what entertains people and helps sell shit. So, yeah,
yeah. And I don't know if you saw it, you definitely saw the Ocean Spray video with with Dog Face. Yeah, you know, and man, he got Fleetwood Mac to go in the Billboard Top 50 and three different positions with three different albums,
so crazy
45 year old song.
When I went home to Florida like, I don't really watch commercials here because I just use like Hulu and HBO I don't really watch like regular TV. Yeah. And when I realized that, that's an actual commercial now with Lee with Fleetwood Mac and I'm like, holy shit. I had no idea that he was about
straight up straight up. And now, every brand. It's like a gold rush to figure out what is our brand identity and tick tock, what is our, you know what, how are we crafting our story. It's like a gold rush on tik tok, and the influencers are getting so busy, and they need professional people real people to to represent them. And, you know, kids like Charlie camileo, like she is the top of the food chain and pop culture right now, and it's like her dad is managing her you know.
Yeah.
And now she just signed with, who is at UTA or CAA like that these tech talkers are blowing up, and there's so many of them that you could probably reach out to that totally need you.
Yeah, this is a really really good idea, but you're saying you feel like I should probably get an LLC or something. Legal once I kind of have a handful of people.
Yeah, eventually you know you want us start up like I don't know like setup like a sole proprietorship, or a DBA or an LLC, some kind of a legal entity at some point, you know, in the beginning it's not that that important but like as you get bigger. You don't ever want to get sued personally if you get sued the business will get sued. And then you know you want to like separate account your personal account from your business account. So once you have a business entity set up now you can create like a business, checking and savings account through that and that's where you funnel all your money. And then also you can deduct expenses portion of your rent car payments cell phones. Anything that you spend to potentially help your business. Right. And then if you take a loss every year, you're literally paying like no taxes. So, yeah, welcome to Team Trump.
Smart thank you so much for pointing me in this direction because sometimes it's really easy to get, like, lost, or just boggled down with. Well this is what I did, what do I do now, and it's like, you don't have to necessarily do something totally different. You can just, you know, work with the same type of people just in a different capacity. Oh, totally.
And, you know, I saw you firsthand, you are so good with artists. They all love you. So if you had. I mean you could literally onboard hundreds of people, and call yourself the biggest Tick Tock agency in LA, because I don't even know one tick tock agency. So if that's like, all you did that would just be like an amazing, you know,
we can Why isn't Gary Tick Tock agency.
You know there's people who represent tick talkers, but I don't know one tick tock agency.
Yeah, that's so strange. And I'm also kind of like baffled that I haven't thought about that.
Yeah, so, you know, make that your goal, you know, you're gonna create the biggest Tick Tock agency, you don't need a fancy office, you don't need anything you'll be, you'll, you're gonna work remotely, and you're not going to be exclusive to one influencer. Just tell them any deals that I get you I'm getting 20% and work with hundreds of them. So when you know big when you somehow get in contact with the brand and they're like, who do you know. Holy crap, you could list off a list that's like two hours long.
Okay Cockers.
Yeah, I mean just because I've learned Compton, she's you know she's only has a million followers, it's not that big. But just because I have that people say, okay, so we can't afford that. But, well, who else do you have, and then I'll say Who are you looking for, and then I'll just go find them.
Cool. So it's almost like you've created it is sort of like Besson like you have like tears.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You just create different tears. You know, but sometimes people want a lot of lore and competence, maybe they want 10 of them, or they want somebody who's half the price so it's good to have like a diversity of just as much as you can. And it's not like old school talent agents like where the This town is going to call you and cry and cry and shoulder for like three hours about you know right, the politics of Hollywood. This is social media, everyone. Everyone is very independent they create their own content. They work at their own speed. So it's very like it's very remote friendly.
Yeah, like hands off like clearly just a business deal.
Totally. Nothing else we
have to discuss here. Yeah, totally, totally. And then when you're talking to brands like how do you introduce yourself Do you just say Hi, I'm Jen I represent Lauren Compton.
Yep, yep. So anytime Lauren gets an email she always forwards it to me and says, Hey, this is john He's my manager. He'll take it from here.
Oh okay, cool. Yes, obviously want it to be professional and then do they usually ask like for your website or anything like that or it's not that deep.
No, because at the end of the day, they just all they care about is the talent. So if you're the person that handles the talent, you could be the sister the mom the dad, they don't even care if the talent referred you you're obviously the point person, you're just negotiating the contract. However, you will need a website. If you intend to go fishing for your own deals. So, if you're gonna reach out to Coca Cola, then yeah, they're gonna say, well, what's your website, who else you represent, then you should have all that on a website, but you could again make that on Wix in like two hours,
right yeah so I mean it sounds like I would spend like the first couple weeks just building talent for a thing who's interested in, like working with me,
I would make a Google spreadsheet and just reach out to everybody, and just say, Hey, I'm starting this thing. I'm creating a tic toc agency. I love for you to be a part of it. you know, how can we work together.
Yeah, super simple
and easy. Yeah.
Awesome. No, we're
just asking do you have representation because I would love to work with you.
Yeah.
It's so smart.
I boarded King batch to circus. Back in the day, and he was, he was our biggest fan even bigger now yeah he was huge. He was represented by UTA, and I saw him at a party. I think Jake Paul or Logan Paul was in a movie. I think he was in it. And so I went up to him I was just like, Hey man, I just love your work blah blah. God, I'd love to work with you, he's like yeah man. You know I'm with UTA, and I'm like yeah are you happy it's like yeah not really don't do shit for me. I'm like, but you probably exclusive to them so I couldn't work with you could I, he's like no man I'm not you're not exclusive, you know, I'll give you a commission. Wow, I'm like yeah I've got this thing called circus. We don't have a lot of huge deals but if I have a huge deal. I'd love to filter to you because you'd be the only person who's above a million, everybody else has less than 100,000. And he's like, hell yeah dude, and like, we on boarded him.
So cool and then what did he do for a circus, just like helped with like raising awareness or
absolutely nothing because I didn't have enough clients who could give him the kind of money that would warrant. Right him doing any work. However, when I put them in my decks, people were like, Oh, damn you have King batch. I'm like, Yeah, we do actually. So that kind of caught their eye
right yeah it's good to just have these connections with people, even if it's just to like name drop
totally so you know like so
possible. If something does happen yeah,
you just never know. Yeah so names like that helped with Heineken and Red Bull and Lyft and whoever else like the bigger the bigger brands.
Yeah,
totally. Thanks so much for the suggestion that I'm like my head's going like all over the place now. Are you going to come back to LA, at some point. Yep,
I am probably going to come right after Thanksgiving.
Oh okay,
well maybe we can meet up when you get back.
Oh, I would love that.
Are you still living in the same place.
Yep. So in West Hollywood Santa Monica.
Nice, nice. Awesome. Well, keep me posted let me know if if I can advise you on anything else. And, yeah, yeah let's definitely hang out when I'm back.
Okay. Thanks so much and that's really made my day.
My pleasure.
I'll talk to you soon.
Okay. Bye. Hi,
have you reached out to go boy,
I can't.
I cannot get to my phone right now, but please leave your message, or if you want to.
Looks like 10 o'clock at night. model.
marketing process exceeded marketing but he kept on just a crazy system. And the goal is to protect your individual investors. Now in a merger. You're merging with the fact that a company is not selling new stock. The company is just trading their stock for this backstop. And so the merger, you're not protecting the grandmother anymore. So therefore, there's no quiet grade, and if anyone can take advantage of the world where there's no quiet period it's true that he's obviously a brilliant promoter and marketing person. And he has gone on CNBC and he just did a phenomenal job of telling the story of his companies in a way that works really well in an IPM, which he was not legally able to do in an IPO, and so it's the perfect fit for chamath and IBM's
of Cool, cool. Um, if anybody has any questions, feel free to raise your
hand. we'll
bring you up on the stage and a prayer responsive
early so we'll invite Perry up, I've got, obviously a bunch more questions I can just obviously sit here and, like, go forever but Edgar, what's up. Hey there. Hey thanks for doing this. Hey Jeff it's Carrie Boyle,
how are you.
Hey, welcome to the clubhouse, and thanks for that lit man. I have to call bullshit on one thing you said though. You said that you went with the accounting or the CFO rap because you couldn't sell. You're one of the greatest salesmen I know so
well maybe I got better over the years, but when I was a banker there were a lot of bankers who were much better than I was.
Well, you were probably more thoughtful and honest than they were so good for you. I'm
gonna tell you my selling story. So, yeah, Steve Rattner is a really talented guy who started his own private equity firm, so he was the head media banker at Morgan Stanley when I was trying to come up to his level at First Boston, and we both pitch a TV station company and we did the analysis and I went in and I said, I think the company's worth $200 billion. And he said, I think it's worth 250. And the fact that the customer hired the company hired Steve and I talked we'll call them up, they said, why'd you hire Stevens, Steve, but he was worth it, but it's not worth 250 it's worth 200 and so there's actually sold for 200.
It was just, you know, you had to be a little promotional. Well, there's a lesson in that yes.
Well here's one of the great ironies my daughter works for the trade desk. So, oh, no kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, I had a question for you though such a question. How do you view kind of the future of the public markets versus the private markets like is the public market fading away Is it, is it you know why, why would you want to be a public com
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